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    • #30343

      The conventional tumble drier appears to be the worst appliance in terms of energy wastage.  However, it is clear that some owners of low (or low-ish) energy houses do not wish to use the washing line.  I know very little about tumble driers, but, understand that the condensing type dries the clothes whilst producing warm (dry) air into the house and collects condensed water in a tank ready for disposal. [the hot humid air from the clothes recirculates; this passes through an air-air heat-exchanger that recirculates room air. The room air is colder than the clothes air, so water condenses].  I saw both condensing, and the old ‘vent out the window’ type in a store, and was surprised to see that both had an energy rating of  ‘C’.  Surely, the condensing type is not losing any energy to outside, so in the winter it may be deemed an acceptable use of electricity. The old vented type is total loss.   I assume the energy ratings ignore this.   Reading further about condensing washer/driers I was rather alarmed to learn that most seem to use mains water to condense the water from the clothes. This type dumps the heat down the drain, wasting water as well!   Again, the energy rating did not seem to reflect the overall energy implications.  There seems to be very little information on this topic…. Or have I missed it?

      For the low energy house that has whole house heat recovery ventilation, it seems to me that the simple air-air condensing tumble drier would be reasonable, especially if the washing line could be used when the weather is good and when there is time for it.

      I would be very interested to hear of any experiences with condensing tumble driers. And any comments on my thoughts, since I have done no calcs on percentage energy use drying clothes etc.
      johncantor@heatpumps.co.uk

    • #32169
      Nick Grant
      Participant

        Hi John, Happy New Year

        I was going to mention that condensing dryers use mains water but you went on to say that!

        I do have a few problems with justifying electrical appliances on the basis that they contribute to heating in winter.

        A low tech solution that has worked for us for the last 7 years is a covered veranda which works great as an all weather drying area with loads of other uses. Wouldnt work in a wet fog but I don't remember this ever happening. Clothes come into the house cold but dry and just in need of airing. Our house is pretty tight so we don't want to bring wet stuff in – ie we dont live in a drafty farmhouse with Aga.

        A higher tech solution that Peter Warm has used is a small Baxi mhvr vent in a drying/utility room used on 2W trickle mode.

        I have heard of other solutions but only second hand so hope others will contribute re eg Swedish and German low enegy house parctice.

      • #32170

        It's worth pointing out that in very well-insulated houses with continuous MV (i.e., in winter) clothes dry quite quickly even without a dryer. Some people hang them on a rack on the bathroom, others build a clothes storage cupboard with an exhaust vent linked to the MV system.

        A high spin speed washing machine obviously helps, as it removes about half of the residual water. But the houses I mention were built before today's very high speeds became available.

      • #32171
        SimmondsMills
        Participant

          All
          real life problem: partner wants to buy tumble dryer of some kind to cope with both of us working and having one 2 yr old and 3 month old twins: am understanding and modern man, yet the Exec Officer of AECB part of me is embarrassed if anyone finds out, so am delaying agreement to buy said machine.

          should I build a cupboard and buy a Baxi thro wall to dry clothes will clothes spun in w-machine dry overnight? Should I be reposnsible for hanging out washing in autumn/winter and run round garden if not dry when needed?

          Oh, my house is solid 8″ brick walled, awaiting AECB Silver refurb (5yr plan), so don't want wet washing hanging inside – even if there was space.

          Helpful advice welcome.

        • #32172

          I see that nobody has picked up on my original point/question about condensing driers.  . Ventilation with high efficiency heat-recovery sound good.  Has anyone tried a condensing air-air type that collect all the water in a container, and where all the heat is kept in the house.  If not used in summer, when a washing line will do, then it sounds reasonable to me.   May not be the perfect solution, but much much better than the terrible Electric 'elephants trunk out the window' types.  Has nobody done an appraisal of tumble driers? Nobody seems to know much about them… why is this?

        • #32173

          I think Andy's simplest solution before house is refurb'd is a gas dryer (half the CO2 of an electric non-condensing one) & a washing machine with high spin speed. In long term, if the house is made airtight and MVHR is fitted, the problem goes away – see earlier.

          In the very short term, while sorting ut the dryer, hang them to dry in an upstairs bathroom if there is one, with a window left open and the door left closed (the stack effect means that the net moisture movement is up through the house and out of the window thus avoiding condensation in rest of house on 215 mm solid brick walls). They dry in a few days. Try to fit a gas clothes dryer by winter

          A distant possibilty if you have any time to experiment – unlikely when running the AECB! – is an outside clothes line which has a roof to the top but is exposed on 2-3 sides. I once lived in Cambridge and using this system clothes dried very well even in winter (often they freeze-dried!) but Cambridge is very dry in winter compared to the western side of the country.

          HTH

          D.

        • #32174
          Nick Grant
          Participant

            David I agree re clothes line under a roof, veranda, car port etc. See my post above, can confirm that roof open on 2 sides (Eand S) works great all year round for clothes drying in South Herefordshire at 600 foot above sea level.

          • #32175
            SimmondsMills
            Participant

              In all these sort of discussions we have to remember that any solution has to respond to factors, that may not be being made explicit…on further discussion with my partner it was clear that the time spent pegging out innumerable little socks etc was a key factor, not just the speed of drying and the space taken up. Will look at gas dryer, but bet is expensive to buy and install – which is an issue at the moment, when our young family related expenditure is slightly beyond our income! With both of us working most of the week come January, solutions that work for singles / couples etc will be non solutions.
              An ingenious passive solution that allows us to throw the pile of damp clothes onto a rack or frame of some sort that then dries reasonably quickly woud conclude our domestic discussions! Possibly a tall cupboard with pegs sticking out all over it to catch the stuff when thrown in, a shelf to catch the remainder and Pete's vent axia to outside..mmm, i think i had better get on with the chores..

              If any relevant inspiration strikes I will let you know, but generally I would rather save money for upgrading the house fabric as soon as possible.

            • #32176

              Use cotton socks twice as thick (it must be cotton or linen to absorb perspiration) & wear twice as long?! I found where to get these, can discuss when I see you.

              If for the temporary solution you adopt an upstairs bathroom and it has a large radiator, hang them on the rad. to dry to reduce the labour of pegs. That plus the above is a quarter the labour.

              Worth checking gas dryers though as it may have paid for itself by the time you come to retrofit the house.

              D.

            • #32177
              Andy Mitchell
              Participant

                Gas driers were not outrageously expensive when I fitted…but of course CORGI installers are charging higher rates as registration etc becomes more and more onerous.

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